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I don’t wish to drag this out any further than is necessary(!), but I get the idea of the principle of being an agent, what I’m unclear on is that if TWS is operating in a manner that doesn’t make them an ‘agent’ when carrying 2 or 3 lines from one producer, is why they automatically become an agent if they carry (say) the 6 or 7 lines of that producer. I don’t see that it follows. Particularly if they only do it occasionally.

I agree, the two statements do not follow at all.

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Thankyou for your patience! :smiley:

No problem at all. I hope that I have been of some degree of help

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Some are asking the question whether the bias of TWS sales towards French wines is actually caused by the stock bias towards French wines. However if you carefully read @SteveF 's report you will see that they “over index” the lower represented wines such as Australian. So if the amount of wine bought from a particular region is at least partially driven by the number of wines on offer from that region then over indexing that region (carrying a higher percentage of wine from that region than the percentage of sales from that region) should allow that region to progressively increase its share of the sales until it reaches equilibrium.

This seems to me like a perfectly reasonable approach. Showing statistics on the levels wine imported from different countries merely shows how the entire country is drinking and, as has been discussed before elsewhere regarding supermarket wine, that is unlikely to be representative of TWS members’ drinking choices.


Or maybe it says a lot about the relative WEALTH of the wine buyer’s in those markets. One in fifteen Singaporeans is a Millionaire (no idea if that is £, $, SG… it’s a big number).


I take it they’re not all originally from Singapore?

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Yes, originally Singapore national millionairs, not including expats. I worked out there - makes the UK look like 2nd world. Botttle of Dubeouf Beaujolais sells for around £40 in supermarket - only the expats drink much !

One can adopt Sing.nationality, but doesn’t seem to happen much.


That sounds like the 14/15ths of the population who aren’t millionaires have to pay millionaires prices for stuff then?

It’s never very helpful trying to compare other country’s salary/standard of living with our own. They simply do not equate. Our visits to Australia proved that.

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I don’t think anyone is suggesting TWS go out and stock Yellowtail, Wolf Blass Red Label, Echo Falls or Blossom Hill are they?

Although TWS do list cheap South Australian Shiraz & Chard along with a Cali SB which I assume sell fairly well due to their price point?

The supermarkets also sell a lot of NZ SB (the bane of my life :wink:), as does TWS with 18 SKUs and I think it is also safe to assume that these shift pretty swiftly.

Really good point Mike but my question remains - do TWS have the correct and best offerings that generate excitement and great QPR from places like Germany, Argentina & Australia? Or is it a bit one paced and tired?

I think based on the feedback above from people who often (or would like to) buy from these countries that currently the answer is no. Therefore if you don’t get your range right, how will you ever know its potential?

I look forward to September for the Australian offering to see what is new and exciting.


Usually followed by ‘or some Aussie Shiraz’, a dig to the ribs from other half to shut up, and another BBQ ruined for me! :smile:

In all seriousness, as @MikeFranklin pointed out, Australia is over-represented when it comes to sales, I’m all for increasing quality, but quantity, and at who’s expense? I think Austria and Greece are far more under represented on the list than Australia, but then I would say that, as I’m far more likely to buy from those two!

And besides, my response was aimed at the ‘data’ being proclaimed as evidence that Australian wine is ‘liked’. I’d suggest that anyone aside from the most ardent Australaphile (is that a word?) would admit that most of that is an ocean of dross produced by and for people who haven’t really a great deal of time or thought for the qualities of wine, it’s just an exercise in ‘throating’. I’ll give them their due, Australia has made a great industry out of it, but it can’t really be considered wine in the sense that most on here would consider but more ‘wine-style-product’ (much like the English chocolate debate).

And I do worry, given your mention of Brexit, that the depseration with which our government is approaching international ‘deals’ (they’re really no such thing), we’ll bend over backwards to encourage more oceans of dross simply to make the headlines. I’m all for new discoveries, and given some quality mid-weight offerings (rather than the balls-to-the-wall style so readily available in our overall marketplace) that I’m sure exist, I (even me, A New Worldophobe) might be tempted to have a dabble. I’m just worried that the ‘quanity’ tail is wagging the ‘quality’ dog here.


I think you are painting Australia all with the same brush here.

Oz Riesling - lower in abv and richness of fruit than Alsace/Austria
Oz Sems - 10.5-11.5% - great for lunch!
Oz Pinot and Chard - some of the best in the world
Oz “Full Bodied Reds” - most likely more restrained and lower in abv than recent Rhone, BDX, Piedmont & Tuscan vintages.
Stuff coming out of Tassie
I could go on…

And I’m not talking in the £5-10 bracket. I’m talking £15-18 and up.

And then there are the great things that they are doing with the non-international varietals as they discover it is getting too warm for the French varietals and southern Spain, Portuguese, southern Italian etc varieties thrive.
European regions are pretty wedded to their native varietals but Australia has the technology, innovative winemakers and freedom to do whatever the hell they like.

Oh, and Italy produces about 5 times as much as Australia and most of that is crap PG, Prosecco and cheap reds so I’m not sure why you associate Oz with


Oh, I readily associate all manner of regions with it. I don’t particularly like the Rhone or large swathes of the Languedoc for pretty much the same reason. But remember, we are discussing Australia and it would take me plenty of time to list all the other places I don’t like and the reasons for. :grinning:

I’m in agreement with @winechief. I do personally think that “better quality” Australian wine is massively unrepresented at TWS. There is currently nothing on the list from The Margaret river apart from a £75 Cullen chardonnay.(There is never anything from the Swan either or Perth hills).
Where is the better stuff? Where is Clonakilla? Where is Ben Glaetzer? Where are all the wines from Tasmania? There are 3 on the list right now, 1 Coonawarra, 1 or 2 Morningtons , no hunter Valley, no Frankland river, too many blind spots (imho), the Clare and Eden Valley are also unrepresented and higher quality Barossa would be great to see along with some Geelong wines.

It’s a real shame than we aren’t seeing more wines from here.


I agree with you, there are many Australian wines that ought to fit in with the expected quality level expected in TWS. When I visited Margaret River it became my favourite Australian wine region (for many reasons) and still is. I was however quite disappointed with the Swan.


I think the last time I was there I wasn’t of drinking age :sweat_smile:, but I guess the point I’m making is there are so many regions that just not represented. Who are your favourite Margaret river producers??

There is a Hunter Semillon under the WS own label, made by Brokenwood. IMHO the WS could do better than that though surely. Perhaps we’ll see some soon. Semillon is still a bit off the beaten track for some though I think beyond the sauternes style use. Personally I’d love to drink more of it if I could get it from the WS. I’d also love to see more of it and more of other wines you elude to.

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Have you tried Lovedale from Mount Pleasant, its wonderful and even their Aged Elizabeth is a great lower ABV semillon with an fantastic intensity of flavour and reasonably priced too.


Yes. Loved it. Visited Mount Pleasant last time we stayed at my in-laws in the Hunter at Easter 2019. Particularly enjoyed their old paddock and old hill shiraz as well (off the semillon topic, sorry!). There are so many smaller vineyards in the region producing lovely wine, semillon included. There must be room for some more over here. I realise it is not always that simple and other importers already have a number of exclusivities driving their businesses forward on that front. It took a visit to realise that Oz wine can compete with the best and that it doesn’t always come cheap (which isn’t a bad thing).