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Value For Money

Interested to hear what people think about WS negotiating skills/product pricing.
2018 Kanonkop price has been held (£20 per magnum) despite the excellence of the vintage.
Tesco recently discounting to £6.75 a bottle.
WS say we should avoid ‘dubious retailer discounting.’
Very nice wine - where would you buy?

This is our house red and we love it.

Hear what you’re saying about negotiating however. We’re paying GBp 17/magnum here in Boston at the moment (where most wines are more expensive than the UK).

When you take into account the relationship TWS has with Kanonkop through the society own label wines one would imagine pricing could be better.

This would be a question to raise to the buyers. They could provide a better insight on large supermarket chain pricing. @lockej, could you shed some light please?

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With TWS, the price does also include great customer service.

TWS sells wine , on average, below the price of their competitors. I’m glad that they play the long game, with no gimmicky or fake discounting.

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Tesco and Costco etc will pile wines with high volume high and sell them cheap from time to time…viz the Guigal CdR in Tesco too…

Do what you want but don’t complain if these guys stop stocking them and remember they don’t always do every vintage, depends who they can screw hardest I suspect.

As an aside, I found TWS was cheaper for some wines from Spanish and French merchant sources used by some on here…

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If Tesco wish to sell below market price for selected items - that’s fine… but remember that they will compensate by raising the price of other products - swings and roundabouts. And Tesco et-al have shareholders to pay & a massive retail footprint, so across the board discounting on wine would be unsustainable.

I cant speak for TWS buyers - but I imagine Tesco’s price reductions are more to do with a loss-leading sales strategy rather than canny buying ?

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As an aside… couple of years ago I did a lot of work for Tesco’s head offices in Welwyn Garden City (and I do mean offices, not office). At lunchtime on that complex they look to feed over 5000 staff , and globally have 432,000 employees - compare that to TWS staff overhead.

I don’t think it’s about negotiating. With the exception of certain branded champagnes, I find TWS is usually cheaper, most of the time, than most other places. Supermarkets occasionally offer lower prices, but usually only for a very time limited period, or as a loss leader. TWS obviously can’t do loss-leaders, given that wine is their principal business.

On those occasions, profit from supermarkets if you can, though if you’re going for finer or older wines, bear in mind that the supermarkets’ storage prior to sale is often a bit rubbish, and you need to be able to store it at home yourself, if not for immediate drinking.

Was that an in store offer at Tesco? I ask as I am seeing it as £11 for a 750mL on the Tesco website so am wondering if it was perhaps a single store offer to make space or the bottles were affected in some way? The price would seem to be so low that Tesco would be taking a hit on it.

If you’re referring to the Guigal CdR then no it was across all stores as far as I’m aware but it was a while ago now. I bought them back in June.

I think a merchant(?) like TWS is always going to be about relationships and harder-to-find wines, whereas a supermarket can use wines piled-high-and-sold-cheap to entice customers in to buy other things.

Hence why, to pluck an example out of thin air, Cauhape’s wines are pretty much cellar door prices from The Society, and indeed Brumont’s are cheaper then buying direct from Bouscasse as I recall.

I’m pretty certain you’re never going to get those wines in a British supermarket because of their relative scarcity, and because they exist in the ‘inner-sanctum’ of slightly higher prices and relative obscurity. On the other hand, Tesco sell a perfectly passable Madiran for buttons. But it’s no Brumont. As customers we’re entitled to shop at both, but as you say, they’re very different animals and don’t really stand comparison other than on specific and limited offers.

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I have bought Montus from Sainsburys (though I haven’t seen it recently).

Kanonkop make eight wines*, the magnum at £20 is the Kadette Cape Blend. 2018 Kadette Cape Blend is currently retailed by the winery at 230 Rand, about £11.50 (including 15%VAT). So even with UK wine tax and 20% VAT on top the price is about right, bearing in mind that TWS didn’t buy retail.

TWS have listed the Magnum for a while, so I imagine TWS bought it some time ago, and one could say that maintaining the price is not only right but
is a way of clearing it :slight_smile:

To answer your question, a magnum is too much for me, and when the Kadette Cape blend was sold by Tesco at £6.75 I bought a lot. I don’t think that Tesco are selling wines at a loss.

@rjsmall Kadette Cape Blend 2018 is currently listed by Tesco at £11, but was discounted to £9 for a long while and during the recent 25% off promotion that took it down to £6.75.

By co-incidence a bottle is in my kitchen right now waiting to be decanted for dinner tonight.

*TWS currently list, in addition to the magnum Kadette Cape Blend, the Kadette Rose 2019, the Kadette Pinotage 2018 (under the Exhibition label) and the Estate Cabernet Sauvignon 2014. They sometimes list other Kanonkop Estate wines, including the Paul Sauer Bordeaux Blend which has many fans here, and it’s about time they listed the Estate Pinotage 2018 as I’m waiting for it!

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I must admit to an initial bout of scepticism when first reading your post, but then, here it is…

I’m just trying to do the maths on the 23 quid they were knocking it out for against the 90(??) for 6 in bond from TWS. I also checked my emails and other UK merchants were knocking it out for £24 around the same time, so brownie points to Sainsbury’s. But as @MarkC says, no consistency of supply :grinning:

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Works out at about £20.70 a bottle DP based on £90 a case of 6.

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So 8 vintages on, and £2.50 cheaper.

As I say, TWS prices for the Brumont EP are cheaper than you’ll find at the cellar door at Bouscasse anyway. Relationship and consistency of supply :smiley:

Well, I only ever buy wine from Sainsbury’s in the 25% off offer. And I agree with your point in general (it was very much an outlier to the point of aberration in the Sainsbury’s offer).

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Regarding customer service, I think the WS was behind others in how they handled the first lockdown.
However, they are generally very good.
Always very nice to see the green van on the drive.
The supermarkets may offer loss-leaders, but I never regard an attractive price as ‘fake’.

I would imagine most of us (yeah I am taking other people with me whether you want to come aboard or not :joy:) will pick up wine from wherever we can find it and sometimes TWS will win (be it on bottle availability, free delivery, price, information provision) and sometimes they will loose. Thanks to Covid, the only supermarket that has seen my wine money is waitrose as I have been buying direct, via TWS or from other merchants. If I wasn’t back at work I would have become a very happy hermit just gardening, cooking and awaiting cardboard boxes :rofl: :rofl:

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there are many factors for carrying wines of a range and also pricing;

to be allowed an allocation of top wines you have to buy the base entry wines - so to buy cote rotie and condrieu you will have to take standard Cote de Rhone …and lots of it

this may then lead you to sell this vast volume of base wine at a rate that is discounted to the standard market rate as i) you don’t really want it ii) its taking up a lot of warehouse space (£££) iii) cash flow, you need to get back cash into the business quickly

which leads to the Friday edict from the FD to each head of section at a massive UK Supermarket Chain…“on Monday you will receive your sales and stock figures …along with your assigned management accountants please revert by Monday evening your departments plan to liquidate x% of your stock in two weeks. In 3 weeks its the end of the rent quarter / payment due on loan / we need cash in the business to finance xyz” !! Wines and spirits are easy ones for this to work with - just look at how the grapevine works on here…we can clear M&S nationally of high value discounted wines in a week ! Wines and Spirits store, so no issues like those seen in perishables (how many lettuces can you buy?!) and the supply chain is very different to start with.

Also - buying power…Costco was mentioned - they were the biggest wine and spirit merchants in the world (cant remember if by volume of £ $ ) …so all those Cotes de Rhones come to the UK whilst lots of Cote Rotie and Condrieu head to the US and vice versa

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