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TWS Ulysse Pauillac



Thought I’d just draw members attention to the latest offer to hit my email as I know they are sometimes a little erratic.

The latest vintage - '14 - of the TWS Ulysse Paulliac from the ‘mystery’ producer is now available. I had and loved the '12 and I believe it is pretty reliable and at £21 a little more than the '12 but still about as cheap as you are likely to find Pauillac.



Declassified/white label wines

I’m happier wth a wine made by people proud enough of it to put their name on the label


My understanding is that the reason they don’t here is because the low price would undercut their own market. I believe it is fairly common practice when doing a special bottling for a vendor like TWS. I think it often happens with supermarket own label wines.

I also believe it’s not that much of a ‘secret’ who the producer is…


Do you have any pointers about who’s the producer? Still need a bit more convincing to try this. :wink:


Likely to be…

According to a quick Googling :smiley:


Very clever @alchemist! :rofl::rofl:


Should you struggle with @Alchemist’s cryptic clue. Then look up Ulysse Cazabonne Pauillac on Cellartracker (Ulysse Cazabonne is the negociant I think) or google it and you’ll find a few links explaining it.


Wow! Thanks for that. Very tempting now :smiley:


Can confirm that in the past similar Pauillac’s and Margaux’s from Ulysse Cazabonne have been declassified parcels from some of the very best properties in the Medoc. This should be a great buy.


I’ve tried the '06 and the '08. Both decent, balanced, smooth, well-made claret.


But do you think this is the same wine that bears their name? Their Grand Vin, or their second label, or their third label?. If they’ve such a reputation (and Ch Latour certainly has) then why do they need to sell their own wine off anonymously?

Or is it the green unripe grapes, the young vines and the other stuff that is not good enough for their own labels.

Or is it bought in wine/grapes that have no connection to the Chateau we (nudge nudge, wink wink) are led to believe it is except that its sold by them. Sort of a Mouton Cadet to Mouton Rothschild?

I’m playing Devils advocate. I have the greatest respect for TWS buyers and I am sure they wouldn’t sell any wine they didn’t believe in – but but – do they have to buy some of this as a condition of buying the first label?

I’d taste this before I bought it, but I’d prefer to buy a wine from a maker who is proud enough of the wine to put their name on the label.


That’s a jolly good question. I hope not!

Having had the '09 - '12 vintages of this I’d say it is indeed a good wine and great value for the price. It boils down to the question of is it good value? I think it is. Does this taste as good as a bottle of Ch. Latour, no probably not (alas I’ve not been lucky enough to do a comparison). But it is very good, and exceptionally good value at £21 a bottle.


Nice to see the 2014’s on the list now, might have to grab a few of these - because I don’t give a hoot if they’re black affronted and covered in shame by their own product, as long as I like it, and in this case I do :sunglasses:


Have to agree that it’s very good value for money, and also worth cellaring. We had a bottle of the 2012 recently, and it has certainly got a lot of development to come, while being drinkable now. Needed a good hour to open, and was better still the next day.


Very much in agreement with your sentiment here ! and the old adage…if something looks too good to be true!

Lets “leak a secret” make everyone excited…but where does it come from considering at the supposed producer they already go down to “village” wine with their own Pauillac (and very good it is too, have several cases of several vintages myself) - does having the Ch own name on the label double the price - £21 for Ulysse vs £42 for their own label Pauillac ?! or is it simply not as good ?

Small extract from a description of UC - “Director John Kolasa was previously régisseur (general manager) of Château Latour. Using these connections Ulysse Cazabonne has been able to source wines from famous estates that have not made the cut into the ‘grand vin’ for whatever reason - young vines or parcels that in these years have not been quite as successful…”

And yes, you do have to buy the rough to get the smooth so to speak - had this very conversation with an acquaintance in the trade last night…it’s all related to allocations

Although, as with all wine - if you like it and consider it value for money, does it matter who makes it ?


As I am sure you know Latour do a third wine called Pauillac de Latour, once you get to third wines from the first growths I think they are milking the system, with Forts de Latour now fetching more than second crus a third wine is not going to be anywhere near the premier cru, just greed on the part of the Bordelais.
If they are then selling what is in effect a fourth wine without their name on it I would be surprised or maybe I wouldn’t anymore, but I wouldn’t buy it, if it is actually happening it would be newly planted as PeterM says green grapes, pure exploitation, there are much better buys out there, it would not even be label buying without their name on it.
It doesn’t make sense Latour no longer does EP, they sell when they think the market is ready so why mess about with an unbranded wine


Naturally these wines are parcels not good enough to make the first, second (and possibly third) wine of the producer. Still I have found that they are generally good at their price point.


In theory I agree with the sentiment that if it’s not even good enough to make the third wine is it worth the price tag.

However, I’ve tried the last 2 vintages of this and drunk them with a friend who really knows his Bordeaux and in particular loves Pauillac and we both agreed they were very good.

Some of these negociant bottlings are hit and miss but I’d happily buy this one again.


I agree with many of the sentiments expressed here that, of course, you’re not going to be buying a Ch Latour first wine for £21. This will be an inferior wine to their first wines; just how inferior is a subjective judgement. But having had the Ulysse before I think you’d struggle to find many clarets, especially Pauillac, as good as this at this price.

The timing’s bad for me as I’m about to go away for 3 months so I’ll just have to hope it’s still available when I return. The last time I bought it was in May so I guess there’s a good chance I’ll be able to get it then. There appear to be over 1200 bottles available so fingers crossed! :smiley: And if not… well there’s plenty more wine to buy out there…:crazy_face:


Probably worth me chipping in briefly now this conversation has continued so long and a few queries/doubts have been raised, just to be completely transparent and re-emphasise that - as you said - your Society buyers only ever buy wines they truly believe in (quality is top of the agenda! Unlike most other businesses, we exist purely to please our members, after all). That’s why we have The Society’s Promise allowing members to return wines if they don’t enjoy them. We simply wouldn’t sell a wine if we didn’t 100% believe it was a great wine at a fair price.