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The Bordeaux Browsers

Wow. I would have been in the market for that Senejac 2014 but sold out in less than a fortnight.

I think this is part of that discussion elsewhere, whether TWS growth actually works for its existing customer base. Surely to list a wine, especially a new wine, you need to acquire more than 10-12 days stock?

Had a taste at the Autumn press review, and then bought a few for Christmas. Amazing balance between freshness & rounded honeysuckle. Although I am NOT normally a desert wine drinker, even I can recognise this is superb. Price makes it a no-brainer, and will only improve with keeping.

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Do you check new wines or the forum regularly

Not really but clearly I should do more often!

But that doesn’t really address my broader point, albeit it was covered on another thread, unless we regard the effort of doing the checking being a sort of natural form of selection, and those who don’t just have to miss out. As it stands, I just view the wines available when I order, usually about once a month.

I know the position from my side, 10-12 days stock for a wine that is not extremely limited, like for example some domain Burgundies, is surely not ideal. I checked that Senejac makes around 120,000 bottles a year give or take. What % of that would/should give say a couple of months of stock? Does the buyer face problems acquiring those sorts of quantities or is it a case of too conservative buying? I don’t know but I’d be interested to find out.

Yes but Some will be bought in micro quantities I’ve seen wines come from airlines that were hit by Covid lack of passengers …worth checking the forum pages that you are interested in ….there’s a forum feature you can get an email when there’s a new post

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It’s always disappointing to miss out but if TWS only lists wines with enough volumes to remain on the list for weeks at a time we’ll end up with a pretty bland selection. Some will sell out in days, hours or even minutes. But there’ll always be something else interesting around the corner, and that’s half the fun.

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Yes maybe that would be worth doing.

I think the problem, especially with new wines, is that 10-12 days stock is not a known quantity. For some wines the amount purchased is surely limited by how much the buyer is “granted” by the producer. For others the amount is perhaps purchased in line with estimated demand, or in line with the purchasing budget, or by the space available in the warehouse. Or perhaps according to some other constraint which doesn’t immediately come to mind.

I’m sure the buyer’s intention, whenever possible, is to buy a reasonable stock corresponding roughly to expected demand. But sometimes wines sell in large quantities remarkably quickly, and sometimes things end up in the “offers” section, when demand hasn’t been as expected.

Every time I go into a supermarket I see gaps on shelves, as well as reduced price offers on others. Forecasting is hard!

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There’s a new Haut Medoc 2016 just appeared in my emails

I can understand that for more expensive wines that are very limited in quantity or have huge global demand. But it seems odd for a cru bourgeois which produces 120,000 bottles a year.

I’m genuinely curious, with a wine like that, how much TWS can or wants to buy. I can see 100 cases or even a few hundred might go very fast

That would be possible but since it also happened with a similar wine, the Beaumont 2014 (or was it '16), I would have thought they might have a decent idea of demand. The stuff that ends up in true bin ends tends to be esoteric.

Of course forecasts can be wrong, because if that becomes the norm, 10 days worth of stock, I don’t think that works. I see below there is a new 2016 Haut Medoc. I haven’t had an email on that either so presumably that would go too, be interesting to see (once I work out what it is!). Problem is, I’ve just placed an order today so won’t be back for a few weeks. Maybe it would be an idea to offer an opt in for emails on region specific new wines.

I think one of the things that’s very difficult to predict is this community. You need to realise that intentionally or not, we are acting as influencers. I believe there are a lot more people lurking than contributing and sometimes when one person posts favourably about a wine there can be a domino effect with many more backing it up and a LOT of people, including those lurkers, rush off and buy. This sort of spontaneous high demand can be almost impossible to predict. And taking Senejac as an example, when I saw all the posts about what a great deal it was and everyone rushing off to buy I wasn’t at all surprised to see it sell out very quickly.

Similar things can happen when any well known influencer with a lot of followers starts raving about a particular product and suddenly you can’t get it anywhere.

There was a good example of this in the climbing world from over twenty years ago. There is a good high quality producer of down products called Rab (they do a lot of other stuff now but back then it was only or mainly down). This was really before ‘puffer’ jackets became a common thing, about the only place you saw down jackets then was in the altitude and/or winter climbing scene or any of the various extreme climate scenes. However one day a certain famous band appeared in concert with the lead singer wearing one and suddenly it was impossible to buy a Rab down jacket for love or money. This lasted for five years or so until the fashion market had got their own brands going and recognised.

Another thing to be aware of is that if something, like the Senejac, has flown off the shelves like this you can bet the buyers will be trying to get more if it’s available. And it often is, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see it appear again in a little while. As has happened with a number of other wines that suddenly gain popularity such as the Ulysse Pauillac which flew off the shelves with all the hype (me included on that one - I love it) and it went out of stock then more stock appeared and repeated that cycle two or three times.

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It’s a good question…I genuinely have no idea how easy it is to buy 2014 vintages of something like Sénéjac in bulk even if the volumes were big at the time.

Ch Senejac.

Also available from larger branches of co-op. Not sure which vintage though. Wasn’t that special, last bottle I bought.

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They’ve been selling the 2017 in my local co-op for the last couple of years.

The other possibility is that TWS may have bought this particular vintage of Senejac sometime ago. Then sold some (I honestly can’t remember if they did or not) and then decided, as TWS often do, to hold some back to mature and sell it later. If this is what happened in this case then, of course, it’s unlikely they’d find more stock to buy. Bear in mind that there are quite a few vendors selling Senejac duty paid from 2015 up to 2018 but very little 2014, so I’d suggest it’s quite possible this is what has happened and judging how much wine to hold back like this would be a very tough call.

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I had one of those 17s in summer thought it fair and then saw them come here at a very favourable price deflation then jumped ….btw long time Rab fan my 35 year old down sleeping bag as just had a spring clean….love the way they’ve set up a down recycling service too

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I wanted to buy one back in '95 when I first went climbing in the Andes but that was exactly the time you couldn’t get them for love nor money, any other make, no problem, but Rab not a chance. I do have two Rab sleeping bags and some ‘tent booties’ that are just sheer luxury to wear! Damn fine gear!

Interesting! I have a couple of pairs of their gloves - the ‘phantoms’ are great for all but the worst of weather, and I also have a fully waterproof pair of gloves for snow and below zero walking.

I used to have a Rab fleece - expensive but initially superb. But it went ‘bobbly’ very quickly and the zips failed. So never went back for another (Currently Berghaus for softshell, outer jacket & trousers)

Patagonia for fleece ….