I’ve been looking for the more lower-intervention/traditional examples in this list - less new oak, natural fermentation etc - and finding it’s difficult or takes a lot of research to figure this out. The Durand seems like it might fit the bill.
I will light the blue touch paper:
2 cases @ £750/case. A profit of over 250%. These were not listed prior to this offer. They are even listed as being stored TWS!
I have a single case and am hugely grateful and fully intend to drink it. As there were probably only a handful of cases available, it should not be hard for TWS to track down who snaffled two of them and challenge them and perhaps they will in the process find the same folk who are listing Chave Hermitage 2015 on Seckfords at similar margins.
I had a look at the 2010 Rhone EP offer at listed at £160 per case.
I have no doubt that the Society can track down all of the miscreants who hoover up bargains.
I like you, fully intend consuming everything that I purchase.
I buy what I like, as anybody can see from my postings.
I can hardly believe the quality of what has been available in recent offers.
For the very best or the virtually unobtainable, I fervently hope that the Society impedes those who try and profit from wines that should and must reside in members cellars.
Sensible limits should also be imposed and stringently enforced.
The Chave appeared on Seckfords list immediately after TWS sold it, but this was when the wine was released generally so it may not be Society stock.
If the Benetiere is stored at The society not only is this clear but simple to reduce that members allocation.
I agree except the Chave was listed duty paid, and who would voluntarily pay the VAT on a case of wine with a 40 year drinking window that was going to re-sold and therefore attract a second round of VAT? Every conventional fine wine merchant would have offered it IB.
I agree it should be easier to track down the person selling the Benetiere. They are set to make £1000 profit if both those cases sell for £750.
That is pretty sad to see.
Like you I was lucky enough to get 6 bottles that I fully intend to drink, disappointing to see people taking advantage and spoiling things for others. I’d be surprised if those go at the asking price though.
I want to see videos of you guys drinking it… I will also post when I drink the Chave in 15 years time.
Joke (?) aside - it beggars belief such wines are not rationed.
Moral issues aside what are the terms of TWS regarding reselling? Not that I’m planning on doing so - like others I plan to drink all I buy Just curiosity as I sort of automatically assumed there would be a no reselling clause tucked away somewhere.
Having no reserves and only one bottle Gilles Barge 2013 Cote Rotie, stashed safely in my bedroom bottle store, I read with occasional envy about other Rhone delights.
I decided when the Big C returned 18 months ago that I would concentrate on ‘fine Rhones’ that I could drink within a couple of years.
In the 1990’s I regularly brought home from the Maconnais 48 Cru Beaujolais and 24 St Veran, but only twice was there anything left for Christmas or New Year.
Mind you September, October, and November were always memorable months for food and wine.
7.5 Members shall not make purchases from The Society for the
purpose of resale.
The rules are very clear. Laura stated in the Chave thread that it was actively policed.
Excellent - that’s what I was expecting. I did have a quick scan but I think I searched resell rather than resale! So this person should get clobbered then!
I’d say it was rather loosely worded, since it doesn’t prohibit reselling per se. This means you’d have questions around why the wine was purchased and why it was being sold.
I’d also suggest the prohibition should be in the terms of trading, as well as the Rules.
There is somewhere a comment to the effect that “if circumstances change”, wines can be sold, though I can’t see that this would apply to something so clearly being flipped. There’s a FAQ answer on auctions here -
I have in the past bought a couple of cases that were lying at the Society but sent to the auctioneers. One was a mature Alsace riesling. The other was a Burgundy that had gone into closed-down mode. I happened to know the original cost of the burg. as I had actually bought some, so I assume the original owner had bought a bit over-enthusiastically for their drinking rate, and in any event I paid less than the original offer price. I’ve no idea about the original Alsace price.
But I think the point is that it is against Society policy to buy a wine to resell, but that is not a blanket ban on re-selling your purchases.
No doubt but how does TWS prove it was one or the other?
But has it? You don’t know the circumstances of the seller.
If they were in those circumstances they could offer it back to TWS, as it is in reserves, or to the secondary market at a non exploitative price. The original case price was £210.
I assume it’s a fall-back position where they reserve the right to take action against people who appear to be doing this, perhaps repetitively. I have been party to discussions elsewhere on the subject - not necessarily anything to do with TWS specifically but merchants in general - who are trying to offer their customers a good deal. Flipping (buying to sell at a short-term profit) engenders very bad feeling anongst those who genuinely might have appreciated this chance to try something special, but have had that opportunity snatched away from them. It’s a regular occurrence, sadly.
Indeed I don’t, but I am speaking probabalistically. Perhaps I should have inserted the words “very probably” in there to be clear. But realistically, these wines were offered - what was it - only four weeks ago originally?
The most charitable explanation is they bought it EP where it was 160 for 6. But yes, unlikely and an even more eye-opening profit.
I don’t think in law they could make it stand up, I have in the past seen similar clauses in retail purchases but though they could disbar or whatever from the Society there is nothing they could do about the reselling, the goods belong to you and have been paid for.
Even supermarkets are aware of when they have their 25% off on plus discount that outside traders, ie restaurants will come in and buy the best wines for resale, this happened with the Perrins CNDP at Sainsburys recently, their only recourse was to put a maximum bottle purchase on , but of course you simply send in multiple buyers , always a difficult area to police.
I think that’s probably right, @cerberus. They could certainly take a view on what they were prepared to sell such a member in future though, and possibly contemplate more stringent measures.
Though that is ultimately up to the society, but I hope they would listen to the views of all members.
Well there is a system for expulsion which involves appearing before the committee, which seems a bit heavy handed. I wonder what else the rules allow.