Musar Mayhem!

@Cavafy…MrsDJB made this exact point last night, which is unusual for her, and I do appreciate that I have let myself, and this thread, down! :face_with_hand_over_mouth::rofl::rofl:


Retrieve the decanter from the cupboard and redeem yourself this very minute!


Thanks for this - was wondering if the 2010 was drinkable yet or going through a closed period. I will try one of mine this year now.

Noble Grape is doing the 2014 at £28.99 a bottle, or £26.99 on 6 or more. Not a huge saving over TWS but still.

I’m very excited about this 2014 release - the best in years IMHO. Obviously one shouldn’t judge on the basis of a few hours with one bottle, but this was lovely.
Although I was initially concerned that it was a touch on the sterile side; after some air and with some food, the soubois, spices and fruit melange began to work their magic. Just my cup of tea. I suspect this might even persuade a few Musaroskeptics that there’s quality materiel here…
FWIW,. I bought a case of 12 from Divine Fine Wine and it worked out at £26.50/bottle inc delivery.


I often wonder about this. Listening to the comments from the Hochar family over the years it seems that they have not materially changed the winemaking, just focused on factors which resulted in lots of bottle variation and spoilage. Shorter corks and things like that.

Everyone seems to comment on the recently released wines that they are sterile, clean, or lack the Musar magic. Ten or so years later people start raving about it. I wonder that maybe they just need time to be appreciated. Possibly one of the reasons the Hochars take a while to release them. I’ll be holding my '14s until ~2034 to really get stuck in, though I am planning a vertical tasting once lockdown is over!

2001 Vintage - selected reviews from CT:
2010 Reviews:
“Not much sediment in this bottle and no VA”
“Golden hue similiar to middle aged left banker, but earthy shroud to red fruit flavours. Still thin with high acids.”

2021 Reviews
“This wine is very complex and flavourful and as time went on became more fruit forward and was evolving every mouthful. A delight! Leather, cedar, mint, green pepper, asparagus, on the nose.”

“Twenty years on, the acid and tannins are harmonious and show finess. This wine is tremendously well made, with a beautiful mouthfeel and structure with a huge bloom on the front end and a lingering finish.”


Yes, 2001 has come on wonderfully since release.
I suspect there will be many Musarathons this Summer!
You should try a 2014 if you can - it’s just so amazingly approachable. I say “amazing”, but maybe it should be approachable at age 7! However, many releases are, like the 2001, not the real deal on release.
2013 seems to be more debatable. I’ve not really enjoyed one yet (and I’ve tried 3). Other Musar afficianados have suggested that I was unlucky (or wrong!) and I did wonder if mine was a duff batch. I bought a single bottle to check this theory, but promptly lost it among all the others!


By the way, a bit of a long shot, but are there any others here who managed to get hold of a bottle of the extremely rare Cinsault 2010? I’ve been wondering when to drink it. I’m assuming around 20 years of age would be good.

More American infanticide I expect…


I wonder how one could actually work out if it’s all an illusion?
I can only think that taking regular notes and keeping hold of them would be the best thing.
I really should improve my own record keeping here. So many notes scattered all over the place - Facebook, Wine-pages, here, but they are not suitable to find out what’s going on in an historial sense.
In terms of infanticde (of whatever nationality!) I thought that releasing the wines at about 7 years was supposed to get around that problem.

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I have kept notes on CT of almost all wines drunk over last 3-4 years. Before that I have some written ones.

Releasing after 7 years doesn’t in some cases. Musar is one, Rioja maybe another. I’ve seen a lot of CT reviews from Americans drinking wines very young that aren’t designed for that, or if the wine is just about in its window, not really getting it.

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They’d probably accuse us of drinking wine too old!

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They might, but I can live with that…if they drink it too young and it puts them off, they can sell it to me - at the right price clearly…


One of these days I’m going to complete a pet project I keep threatening to run:

Download all the CT reviews
Parse them for sentiment analysis
Plot positivity and scores over time

It would be interesting to see how the community feel about a wine over its evolution. Would possibly only work on vintages with very many reviews but would be an interesting exercise!


You’re optimistic on timescales there…

Wines can go back and forward for all kinds of reasons, but opening a 2019 claret now is probably being optimistic…or lacks knowledge. I quote one review that I’ve just seen…quite surprised he’s even got his hands on. He liked it!


2001 Vintage aggregated CT scores vs review date. Not an entirely convincing support of my theory, but subjective 100 point ratings are probably less useful as some folks drink early and score on what they think a wine will attain.

Edit: 100 point scores are dross IMO, but maybe interesting at scale. This chart has n=444 reviews


I think 2001 Musar is a good choice for this test, and a lot better than 2014. Other than the fact the data isn’t there for 2014, 2001 is more your classic “ugly ducking” wine (from memory). 1996 would be another good example. Derided as a “restaurant vintage” on release, I quite liked the thinness and my patience was rewarded!

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I tend to find the words more informative than the numbers on CT! Some people score a pretty average wine at 90, others score a pretty decent wine at less…the fact that nothing scores less than 80 unless it’s cat pissmixed with acetic acid with too much tannin is what puts me off scores. I don’t score on CT, as do quite a few others too…


Another point is that VERY young wines can be delicious before they enter the window of undrinkability. A friend enjoyed Sassicaia 2018 the other day.

Yes, but it’s a higher risk game. Mas de Daumas fits this too…but get it wrong and it’s hard work…If I had a case I might try one early.