01438 741177         thewinesociety.com

Judging previous generations

Partially, however mass movement of troops was via trains - and the troops were mostly (in fact, throughout the war) not auto-motive but horse driven. The last book I read suggested that autobahn building was Keynesian Economics, combined with putting the unemployed to work building roads. Hence the ‘Economic Miracle’ and zero unemployment. Or so I read, in anyway.

1 Like

My understanding too. Going hand-in-hand with Volkswagen et al, the Nazis wished to project themselves as a modern, forward thinking party. I also seem to vaguely recall that federal Germany could be much more easily controlled by party functionaries with better access to mass transport (I’m wracking my brains trying to remember the source of this, but at the minute it escapes me).

Most of the facts-to-fit-the-narrative stories of Nazi Germany are actually Anglo-American inventions from the post-war deconstruction/reconstruction. Whilst we in the post war world want to think of the Nazis as only focused on war, they were also focused on power and the retention of it.

Another example is our understanding of the German military - Basil Lidell-Hart is considered to be the architect of ‘Blitzkrieg’ , and was granted the acquiescence of Guderian (amongst others), who were frankly trying to avoid being dragged into the Nuremberg trials by pandering to Lidell-Hart’s theories on war. Better to be sat in a room writing your memoirs-by-proxy, than sat in a courtroom answering questions about your potential involvement in war crimes.


Sounds remarkably familiar and up to the minute!


Ian Kershaw’s views on Hitler would ring remarkably true with our current ‘glorious leader’…

He posits that, rather than being the architect of all ills, he was in fact a rather unremarkable man, who was vague enough in his blusterous pronouncements to allow others to fill the vacuum of the contents of his speeches with words and thoughts of their own, projecting onto him their own desires. He maintains (and this I agree 100% with) that the Nazi state could not have functioned as it did as a police state, but rather required not just the acquiescence of the German people, but their wholehearted involvement.

If you’ve ever seen the BBC series *‘Auschwitz, The Nazis and The Final Solution’ (I think researched by Kershaw?) they uncover a startling amount of documentary evidence in the German archives as to just how much help the German people gave them. they even confront an old lady, who’s written testament sent a neighbour of her’s to a concentration camp. Apparently, the neighbour had been openly critical of Hitler. It is quite chilling.

*Edit: Actually The Nazis, A Warning from History


Is that the documentary that was on BBC about 15 years ago? If so, it’s a brilliant but chilling series. It presented industrial genocide through real people’s stories, in terms of both victims and perpetrators. Having said that, it still didn’t prepare me for visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau a couple of years later.

Edit - have just seen your own footnote.


With the Colston mock trial, I would shepherd the kids research towards the horrors. I would be the judge. Hopefully they would find him guilty. I would then bang down the gavel and say not guilty, he didn’t break the law at the time. Follow up lesson, protest letters to a newspaper. Started doing lesson plans again!

There are two strands to this. Firstly, that the law is a little more nuanced than this, and as my understanding goes, allows, sometimes, for derivation or deviation when set against something which is plainly wrong (I could stand to be corrected on this).

Secondly, to simply hide behind ‘it was the law’ is not much of a defence. If you haven’t already, I implore you to read ‘The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting’ by Mark Roseman, and watch Kenneth Branagh’s excellent ‘Conspiracy’. In many cases, the law is just obviously bad, made by bad people (or in this case, banal people) with bad intentions. That slavery is and was wrong is beyond discussion. All else flows from there.

I would use it as part of the lesson to enrage the children. Might be a little inaccurate but it would do the trick. I am in the classroom at the moment!

I thought this was a wine forum. Another thread, second this week I am going to mute.

That’s a shame… Considering the emotive topic the discussion has been surprisingly civilised and led to many interesting points of view. I’m also of the opinion that this forum is much more interesting than just a ‘wine forum’ for the breadth of topics covered. Can’t tell you how many books, articles, programmes (not to mention food suppliers!) I wouldn’t have come across if it weren’t for topics here that are not exclusively about wine.

Still, you’re absolutely right - the mute button is there for a reason! :slightly_smiling_face:


Wise words. I can see why you are a mentor.

Read this about the Colston Statue, it was erected in 1895, 62 years after the Slavery Abolition Act, and 174 years after Colston’s death. Importantly, it was erected only yards away and in direct response to the statue of prominent abolitionist Edmund Burke, erected only a year earlier. The Merchant Venturers are an archaic albatross around progressive Bristol’s neck, all though of course Burke was a Tory.


I’d been avoiding mentioning them directly, but yes. This.


KBO. My favourite double act of all time is Clem Attlee/Ernie Bevin. Spoiler alert, didn’t want them to die at the end of Citizen Clem.

To be fair, I don’t 'block up ’ any of the wine threads. You’re looking at a man who thinks red wine and twiglets is a good match.

1 Like

You might enjoy this thread then…


I find the match for chilli doritos a bit more challenging.

Thanks for that recommendation, I’ve got half a bottle of Harveys Bristol Cream in the parlour, circa 1980. I’ll give it a whirl.

Hi all,

Just clarifying on this closed thread. After discussing internally, we made the decision to close this thread noting that such topics are more likely to lead to flagged posts. This isn’t in response to any particular comment.

As ever, our goal is make the Community an inclusive and positive space for discussion on wine and related topics. While we appreciate that the decision may not please all Community members, it was made with the best intentions.

Thank you, wishing you all the rest of a lovely week.