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In praise of older wines

This afternoon I was chuntering to myself that an opened bottle of Rioja ( Dominum QP Reserva, Rioja 2007 £11.95 a bargain) would have been better with more bottle age, despite TWS window up to 2021 …

I have similar thoughts about all manner of wines & it is VERY rare to find a bottle that is past it’s best - so this categorically ISN’T a post about Rioja. Nor is it about fine wines & their ageing potential. I appreciate there is a commercial imperative for merchants to turnover stock in the middle price bracket.

What I’m interested in, are reasonably priced (£15 ish) wines with tertiary flavours. Can anyone recommend any from TWS lists? What are member’s opinions & are there any articles out there discussing this?

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The Weinert 2009 makes that claim, but see my post in this weekend’s drinking thread. It is also bit outside your price indication.

I recommend keeping it quite a bit longer.


For great value reds with ageing potential, the Iberian Peninsular is my go-to. Cheap examples of Tempranillo and Garnacha both age really well, as do the various Portuguese native grapes.

For bargain old Rioja, Urbana is usually great, although prices are creeping up recently (reserva’s seem to be around £18 these days, almost regardless of age). Supposedly past its best cheap Duoro is also great. Inspired by this I am tempted to sling a case of

in reserves for 5 years and see what happens.


Having drunk some of https://www.thewinesociety.com/shop/ProductDetail.aspx?pd=AU22311&section=pd&pl=&pc=&prl=STD and found it far too oaky and un-integrated, I am regretting not keeping this a fair while longer too, and may do the same experiment.

There are a number of reasonably priced Bordeaux that will go 15 years or more. Two that I love are:

Not currently listed but my last purchase was this 2010 for £16.50

How long would you suggest keeping them? I have a couple of bottles and will hold on to them.

Which ones?

Dominum QP Reserva, Rioja 2007 £11.95 a bargain) would have been better with more bottle age, despite TWS window up

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Ah, can’t comment on that one - leave it to @lapin_rouge.

I opened a bottle of it on Friday evening actually - absolutely blew my head off. Had a couple of glasses, then stuck the cork back in and put it in a dark cupboard. Might see what it’s like tonight, see whether it’s behaving itself yet…

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I haven’t tried these but the description reads like they might be worth a try


Wow - plenty of helpful advice - many thanks. The Liberator 2003 & Chateau Malescasse 2007 look promising - they must be into their 3rd age by now ! Ditto the Weinert, I love the bacon / coffee / leather flavours Weinert achieve (I still have half a case of their vertical blend).

I didn’t word my introduction very well - it’s highly unlikely that I would manage to keep my corkscrew away from a bottle for 15 years while it ages in Ch Lapin’s cellar, so regretfully will pass on the Crasto 2018.


I went back and re-read, it was me that missed the point, rather than your wording. I can confirm the Liberator Sangiovese works for what you’re after.

TBH I was a little underwhelmed by this. I have put away the other couple for a couple of years.

Here’s a search filtered for you:
Brings up the Liberator spaghetti western (which I also recommend). Also worth a look IMO: the Chinon and the Weinert Cab Sauv 2008 that was in the recent community tasting.

Well I think that you, my dear @lapin_rouge have hit the nail on the head with the Iberian peninsula.

True there are many wines in South America and Australia which would go into the tertiary flavours arena they never seem to turn up with any bottle age.

Bordeaux has been mentioned but all to often the wines offered with any age are of very indifferent vintages. I have dipped my toe in the water with these from time to time and all I come up with are dry old sticks, tertiary maybe, unpleasant certainly. Perhaps I have been unlucky.

One of my more successful assays with this task has been to search the independents which specialise in selling off liquidated stock, bin ends, the stuff wholesalers have had rattling round their sheds too long. Amongst the halt, the sick and the lame you sometimes find something. It is nearly always from Spain.


Beaujolais often falls within your budget, and they seem to develop tertiary characteristics much more quickly than most types of red - ten years seems usually enough to do the trick.


Pray tell?

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Definitely agree on that. TWS usually (but not at the moment) have a couple of older BJL on offer which always are excellent. Even your common-or-garden BJL villages can get interesting after 3 years


Well I suppose what I’m thinking of is an outfit called Wine World, which has a branch in Ilminster and another in Honiton. Although they seem to do less barrel scraping these days (and not much better for it imho) they still get batches of stuff in which would come well within your parameters. It is quite hit and miss and you need to actually turn up which is why this advice is totally useless for most TWS users. I pass through both towns reasonably often and pop in. I do not think I would make a special journey for them.

There was somewhere in Brighton (it was Hove actually, joke intended) which did a similar thing but closed in the nineties. I have not looked where you are located but there may be something similar round your way.

I can’t help feeling I have been not much help in this answer. Sorry.