01438 741177         thewinesociety.com

English bottling

Okay okay, sorry for ruffling feathers again. Saving up for the WS ‘mentor positivity plug-in’. I’ll get my coat.

I’m sorry, but I really don’t understand why you seem to have this, frankly unfounded, negative view of the mentors. These are not people connected to the Society, just folk spending a lot of their precious time helping us all out on the community. And to state time and time again that negative views are not allowed is ridiculous.


As far as I can see your only view of the problem is the difficulty of finding space on the page. Whether that is an issue is almost neither here nor there. But yes I agree there are places it could be put. But…

That would all be fine if the displayed page is all there is to it but it’s not. This would require an extra field in the database. So ‘big deal’ I hear you say, ‘what’s one extra field in an already probably quite large database?’ Well unfortunately it is potentially a big deal; making changes to the structure of an existing database whilst not impossible can be quite a big job; ensuring that it is populated with valid data for every single record in the database is a non trivial exercise and without doing that carefully we, the users of the site, are liable to start getting script errors when records not updated in the database start returning null values. Not something most users of the website really want. And then it still has to be added into search filters etc. in order to be really useful.

None of that is impossible but please do not underestimate how hard a particular request is based purely upon the necessarily limited view we have of the overall system.

There are many other things that would require similar updates that myself and others (probably) would consider more important. Things like a list of all grape varieties in each wine and their percentages etc. Something I have suggested and would really like but… I know it would be non-trivial to include this along with all that data for every wine currently in the list, so I’ve not pushed it beyond my initial request (and occasional bump opportunities like this :smiley: )

As a developer myself (software and websites) I like to think I have an appreciation of how something that can appear trivially easy from an outside perspective can actually be horrendous to implement internally. And, bizarrely, how often the reverse can hold true; something which appears really difficult to the outside observer can often turn out to be trivial to implement. Not knowing the internal workings of the system it is not fair, or realistic, for us to voice opinions on the ease or difficulty of modifying that system.


For me it’s simple. I get all the good reasons why it’s ok, I get all the arguments for it, the theses that are required to prove that it’s as good as bottled. In some cases, if we’re being esoteric, I can even see that glass bottles are not perfect. What’s better, perfect conditions for very large bulk wines to be moved around the globe or small quantities of wine moved in glass bottles around the globe and maybe by lorries across very very hot terrain,? I’m not sure.
Thats why for me it’s simple. I want the same grower, who is the producer and bottler of the wine, so that my faith and trust in the wine’s provenance and what the wine is, is very clear.
Its the marketeers and vested interests of so many unseen middle men that I struggle to reconcile.

Much later…

It seems to me that it’s not information which many Members actually NEED (or are even aware of) for their purchasing decisions currently so would be an expensive feature to implement, for little benefit.

However, if green issues become more of a concern to the membership in the future (the Greta Thunberg effect), then a shipped-in-bulk indicator might be useful, but ONLY if taken in context as part of an overall ‘environmentally friendly’ label. A bit like the French ‘Bio’ label, but more so, perhaps a carbon footprint measure?

I’ve emailed Greta and she would like to see two tiny little letters next to those wines concerned (EB) Perhaps a small Greta motif would be more environmentally apt?


It’s quite spectacular when bulk shipping goes wrong:


So who do we think the carrier is?

Based on the feedback elsewhere on this forum, surely DHL will get the blame for this one :rofl:


And why the focus on “English Bottled”? What about

  1. English wines?

  2. Wines bottled in the rest of the UK?

  3. Sicilian wines bottled in Northern Italy?

  4. Non-estate-bottled French wines?

  5. Mobile bottling lines?

Serious question: What exactly are we (you @AnaGramWords) concerned about that demands an EB field? I’d suggest it is nothing to do with being “bottled in England”.


Hi @AnaGramWords, just scanned this very interesting thread as I missed it originally.

In regards to your question (which I don’t think was answered, apologies if already covered)

The wine is transported as duty deferred under the final sellers duty account. It is then bottled and placed into a bonded warehouse. Duty is then paid by the seller once the wine is withdrawn from the bonded warehouse and delivered into the depot.


Goodness, I’d forgotten about this. The assumption then is the correct duty is paid but just later when sold and not when imported.

By the way just to scratch the scab, TWS still appear to have little appetite for clearly marking EB wines, unless I’ve missed the grand announcement, on either the website or the paper list. Or am I wrong (gets trodden in the stampede etc).

1 Like

No, I don’t think you’ve missed any grand announcement, although there’s more bottling information than there used to be, now that back labels are visible (not shown on every wine, but at least the facility’s there).

No initiative, these dock workers, how come no one was there filling up containers! :rofl: