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Do you have wines In Bond?


#1

I believe that Duty is set to increase soon.
Should we be moving our stored wines from IB to DP?


#2

From tomorrow by 3% if I am not mistaken. If you planned to transfer soon it makes sense to do it today rather than tomorrow.


#3

I’m probably mistaken… but I thought you only paid duty at the rate it was when you purchased ??


#4

I think you are… :wink:


#5

the purpose of a “bond” is to defer the duty payment until the point at which the goods (wine, tobacco, oil etc) leave the bond into general circulation but for this you have to accept paying the duty rate (and VAT) on the day the goods leave the bond

I used to work in the Petrochemical industry and am aware that in the past, large oil companies would move millions of litres of finished fuels from there refinery into filling stations once they heard the budget statement and before the 6pm deadline


#6

Sadly you are. Duty and VAT are at the rate at time of withdrawal rather than purchase.


#7

Damn it :see_no_evil:, I will be moving some today then too…


#8

Thanks for the reminder…

Done. VAT is the bigger element in some cases, but it’s still 3% of a not insignificant number…


#9

I’m glad I spotted this thread!

Done.

TWS - how about an email reminder for folks with wine in bond to remind them of rising duties?! I’m sure it would be most welcome.


#10

Hmm good question. Currently I have 27 cases (x6) bonded, I stopped paying when TWS stopped automatically requiring it on arrival. I figured it would be better just to take the hit when I wanted the wine as many will be there a number of years. Unless duty is to rise significantly I guess I’ll keep it as is, 27 bouts of duty is quite the dent.

Hmmm seen the 3% while writing. Tricky.


#11

A VAT increase would be more concerning…just saying…gaps in public finances not looking easy to fill, post Brexit (ugh!) and possibility of a more populist Government…all worth thinking about. Not going to happen in the short term, but I wouldn’t rule it out…


#12

A problem I wish I had!

Excise is calculated (I think) by volume of wine (£384.82 per 100l) - so more punishing on lots of cheap wine than a little expensive wine, whilst VAT goes on the value. So for most purposes it’s probably not so much of an issue.

Having looked into it, the difference will be very small but this was just the prod I needed to clear my in-bond and get it delivered. I think I’ve saved about £1 per 12 bottles.


#13

Ah, I wondered what accounted for the widely different ‘per bottle’ rate.

I would save about £27 if I paid it all off now, but to do that I’d have to spend over £900 and cancel my Rhone EP order, so I know what choices I’m making today :smiley:

It’s probably worth me paying it on wines I might take out in the next year or two though, and I sholud probably be a bit better and keeping up with it when I can.


#14

Just one word of caution. ‘On value’ is actually on purchase cost (thankfully) rather than current value. I have been lucky enough to have bought a few cases which have tripled or more in value for which I’d rather not pay the VAT on current value. I should stress that with one exception (the wine went up closer to a factor of ten!) I will be consuming not reselling. Of course on resale VAT would be at the current value.


#15

There is a slightly bigger issue if we suddenly find ourselves outside of a customs union (for whatever reason) and other countries start charging export duties on wine… Most recent EP purchases are not in bonded warehouses in the UK.


#16

A good point and a risk not highlighted in EP material I suspect…


#17

I do not expect countries to charge duties on their wine exports …
What will affect us is if the U.K. government decides to levy import duties on wine being imported from the EU


#18

You are right, I think, that is a better representation of the point I wanted to make.


#19

No worries :wink:

Indeed, maybe someone in the know could opine what would happen if such import duty was put in place - would it apply at the time a wine is taken from IB to DP? Or when it formally enters the country?.. any other possible case?


#20

it would be paid by the “owner” of the goods being liable - when they enter free circulation. Before TWS can withdraw from bond, to “sell” to us, they have to pay HMRC the duties & VAT liable at that point…i’m sure none of us would like to have to deal with HMRC on an individual basis !

Also, it is often deemed better to put product IB when you buy EP. My view is that, unless you are going to sell / move between bonds for whatever reason, it is better to pay the duty and vat at the time of purchase as the risk in duty increases / changes to VAT rates are probably greater than any saving of having that money sat in your bank.