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Burgundy Believer

Drinks Chat
#1

A thread for all things Burgundy.
Have you sampled an impressive bottle this Festive Season??

Many of us purchased these two for Christmas, but no tasting notes as yet:


Have you tried them?
How did you get on?

This is an expensive region to regularly buy from.
At the more reasonable end of the Burgundy firmament, I very often buy wine from these Domaine’s.



And there is also a Domaine that I have a long term plan for.
Some years ago, I got to taste a Bourgogne Rouge, that was (by mistake) kept far longer than perceived wisdom would indicate. By then it had thrown an impressive amount of sediment, howled of the compost heap and was quite wonderful!!
So I have bought cases of the 2013, 14, 15, 16, moronically forgot to buy the 2017 but bought the 2018 with an eye to the future!!

The quality of selection and winemaking has improved impressively over the last decade, and global warming is effecting Northern wine regions. Grivot is a top notch producer who doesn’t know how to make bad wine. It will be interesting to see how these bottles age?? :pray:

And with the release of the 2019 Red Burgundy vintage in the not too distant future, where it is said that the wines have concentration as an attribute, hopefully this thread might be a useful place to post. :+1: :dragon:

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#2

Domaine Taupenot Merme 2016 Gevrey Chambertin. Glorious. A village Burgundy punching well above its weight. Rich concentration, ripe red fruit and glossy fat body. Lovely wine.

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#3

We liked 2012 Domaine André Bonhomme Viré-Clessé Le Coteau de l’Epinet (TWS nla), blogged here.

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#4

Château de Beauregard Pouilly-Fuissé Vers Cras 2014 went down a treat on Christmas day. I do like Burrier’s white burgundies :smile:

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#5

I bought 6 bottle cases of both of these wines.
But for guidance as when to drink them, I have struggled. (@Toby.Morrhall)
No member reviews on the Society product web pages, virtually nothing on cellartracker.com.
Nothing on Vinous or Parker.
Winesearcher.Pro is hardly a font of information for this producer.
The D’Allaines website is not particularly informative.
Or do I have to subscribe to a Specialist Burgundy Website, because that is not going to happen! :open_mouth:
Maybe someone can point me in the right direction? :+1: :dragon:

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#6

Nice idea for a thread :smiley: Our Christmas Day Chambolle is on the ‘drinking’ thread here.

I know you’ll have seen the excellent regional info on the TWS pages. I remember being really impressed with that when I first saw it.

If anyone did want to go down the route of subscriptions, the prices are in keeping with the wines :man_shrugging:

[Jasper Morris - Inside Burgundy] www.insideburgundy.com

[Allen Meadows - Burghound] www.burghound.com

I seem to recall you can get decent quantities of back-vintage information online without having to trade a kidney, and JM’s book is first class.

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#7

The book I found fascinating was Simon Loftus’ Puligny Montrachet. A great insight into the vinous year and a village. It’s been re-released and worth a read.

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#8

The original offer notes had these with drinking windows finishing 2020 and 2021 respectively. So that gives you three days for the Auxey Duresses.
Better get a move on.

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#9

@CCouzens

Thanks for that, but I as within the enlightened few do not think that perfectly wholesome food at 23:59 of one day metamorphoses into a Novichok like substance, with the passing of a few seconds!! :rofl:
The Society are in my view somewhat optimistic at the front end of drinking window estimates and (1922 Committee) Conservative at the other end!! :open_mouth:
Thank you!! :wink: :dragon:

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#10

Try telling that to anyone under the age of 35

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#11

If it doesn’t smell like Nina Ricci it’s probably fine, right?

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#12

Jasper has also just launched a YouTube channel - quite a few videos uploaded recently, mostly current stuff but I’d quite like to watch the Premox one. Looks worthwhile if you’re planning to buy any EP Burgundy this year.

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#13

I bought cases of the 2013 (at auction), 2017 and 2018 (TWS en primeur) St Aubin Sur Gamay. The 2013 is drinking beautifully now, I would guess the 2014 should be fine as well. Will be keeping the more recent vintages for a few more years before opening the cases.

#14

These have drinking dates of respectively 2017-2020 and 2017-2021. Very few other companies offer drinking dates for all their wines. If you click on these wines above and request PDF the dates are there. I am not sure what more you want? We buy 400 Burgundies a year. It would take up so much space and time to keep stock of them all and taste a bottle of each every year during the drinking window and report back. Everyone has a different taste and opinion as to what constitutes a mature wine. The best thing is to buy a case and open bottles as drinking window opens and make a judgement to keep further or drink. I do not see the point on relying on someone else’s tasting note on say cellar tracker unless you know your palate chimes with theirs.

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#15

As mentioned on the drinking thread, I opened my other Coche Bizall the vowelsd Meursault-Charmes PC 2015 on Christmas Day. I’d originally planned to keep it until the other end of its drinking window, but first world crisis meant that I needed a new wine in a rush.

It was delicious. Possibly even better than the first. I’m not sure that was in terms of enjoyment and relief rather than actual quality of wine. Brings up thoughts of an incoming other Burgundy thread we’ll (hopefully?) be starting in January, as I start to ponder EP strategy. If not for the year, at least for Burgundy and Rhone.

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#16

I am slightly conservative in the end drinking date. That is because The Wine Society is a reputable merchant and if the wine oxidises or tastes badly during our drinking window for wines kept in good conditions we will replace or reimburse. I have millions of pounds of Burgundy maturing in our cellars so I am conscious of this. Also we lost over half a million pounds of stock of white burgundy where wines suffered premature oxidation and the producers did not acknowledge any fault, so I am a little scarred by the experience. I keep saying everyone’s palate is different. Taffy you bought six of each. I think you should taste a bottle of each and decide to drink or keep. Both are bottled with Diam corks which are the best closure I know at present.

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#17

Yes this @Taffy-on-Tour. You say you have half cases of each. They are at the back end of their TWS drinking windows, so why not open a bottle of each and decide from there?

Edit: snap

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#18

Thank you all (particularly @Toby.Morrhall) for your advice.
Lots of background in cellaring Rhone & Bordeaux but White Burgundy has been a challenge due to relative inexperience. :open_mouth:
I shall get onboard with your recommendations and hopefully will be able to get the best out of these bottles. :clap: :+1: :dragon:

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#19

It is more than interesting to learn how Pre-mox has caused such a difficult time for the Society. I have seen many references to the problem but I have never seen it quantified before. Also, because of our Promise to purchasers (presumably as good as there is) we have taken such a financial hit. Maybe in the future, I will wind my neck in regarding pricing, which on reflection is very good.
Thank you all, who have contributed to this discussion.
(@Toby.Morrhall) I look forward to enjoying my bottles in the future. :+1: :dragon:

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#20

I have always thought that Burgundy drinking windows are perhaps the most difficult of all wines to estimate. This applies much more to red than white, with reds because they go through what I call a “grumpy adolescent” phase that affects different levels at different times. What I mean by that is you can open a bottle of 1er cru red after 3 years and it will taste green, stalky and bitter. Give it another 2 years and it will be long, silky complex and rich. There is no uniformity about this phenomenon. I had some Corton grand cru from Bonneau du Martray some years ago, drank first bottle after about 5 years and it was thin, acidic and bitter but two years later it was rich, packed with red fruit and a spectacular mouthful!
I have drunk most Burgundy vintages since the late 70s. The two generalisations I will make are that firstly the quality is much better (and more consistent) than it used to be. I suspect that the warmer summers have led to better ripeness. Secondly I am sure that strict selection, less use of herbicides and pesticides and better cellar hygiene have all made a contribution. The upshot of all that is some reds can drink better much sooner than later, but there is still that grumpy period to contend with. So Burgundy red drinking windows are I think a very difficult task for the seller when making recommendations. To reinforce the point once through the grumpy phase reds taken on those tertiary characteristics that integrate so well with the primary fruit flavours so you can a drink that can be highly complex but not what you thought it was the last time you tasted a bottle two or three years ago.
So to sum up, my experience is that red Burgundy drinking periods do not go in a straight line and if you drink the wine during a dip don’t write it off.

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