01438 741177         thewinesociety.com

The Society's Community

Bourgogne Cote d'Or

Have any members tried this new category of generic Burgundy? It is designed to be somewhere between village level and Bourgogne rouge or blanc. If you have tried it what are your thoughts?

1 Like

Haven’t heard this news until your post. I have been thinking that what Burgundy really needs is another layer of complication. Still, should be good for a few extra quid per bottle.


Immediate thread diversion, but just noticed your profile pic is the great Mark E. Smith, which is excellent.

1 Like

Who is Mark E Smith?

I had to look him up too, but this was a good read. Seems like an interesting, talented guy with some issues

Sllightly curious as to who would have him on their house though

Edit: Ah, it’s a chip shop

1 Like

Legendary mancunian leader/visonary/lead singer of The Fall. Always curmudgeonly (to put it politely), unpredictable and at times downright dangerous.

However, his musical legacy is pretty spectacular and biography well worth a read.

1 Like

Apologies from completely de-railing your thread so early on.

Sadly I have no experience of this new classification. While it does seem slightly unnessary initially, I’m now curious to find out a bit more and hear about the wines, so let’s hope we get back on track!

Thank you Lewis. In all fairness the Burgundy quality hierarchy is fairly straightfoward.
Burgundy is expensive because of its scarcity, the makers have small domaines with low yields and have high production costs. Not to mention regular threats of frost and hail which can devastate a crop overnight.
The new Cote D’or classification is helpful in that the customer knows he is getting a better quality than just the traditional generic wine and better clarity of origin. It is not simply a money making wheeze.

1 Like

No apology needed Matt a little diversification is always interesting.

So is it any Chardonnay or Pinot Noir grown in the Cotes de Nuits and the Cotes de Beaune that isn’t classified as village level (or above)?

Yes and no.
Yes it is PN or Ch. From C d’or but subject to 58hl/hr for reds and 66 (I think) for whites. 9,000 vines minimum per ha and 10.5 mimimum alc.
So bit better quality than generic bourgogne.


I would imagine it should replace (some of) the need to know your producers; who is making what, where and how. You would hope it doesn’t lead to direct price gouging, but if quality increases as a result, then I suppose that’s reasonable.

Or indeed in their house. He was a notorious misanthrope and a right old gobshite

The husband loves The Fall, though… :roll_eyes:


I presume it is the vignerons of the Cote d’Or simply trying to protect and distinguish their own ‘generic Bourgogne’ from any old wine that is produced anywhere from Tonnerre through Chablis and Auxerre down to Macon, and even Odenas – if you consider Beaujolais as part of ‘Greater Burgundy’.

Pinot and Chard are found right across this huge area and anyone can I believe adopt the generic Bourgogne classification for their wine if they want (as long as it satisfies the minimum AOC/AOP criteria like harvest quantities). ‘Bourgogne’ may sell better as a label in certain markets than their more specific local label and make it worth their while to declassify.


That is spot on. Antoine Jobard was one grower who pioneered the concept for the reasons you have articulated.

Ah I must have been feeling a trifle jaded and cynical when I replied. If it helps then I’m all for change.
Any relation to climate change in this move do you think? Wondering if effect on the Cote d’Or has made the difference between borgogne from their and say Macon more apparent.

On thread drift note the chippy at number 8 in Prestwich is excellent. Used to get the occasional lunch there in the before times. It has a great and large picture of local grump and iconoclast Mark E Smith on the wall. On reflection it’s a bad choice for profile pic. He would surely disapprove.


Oh, not sure about that! He would have probably been flattered enough to ask you to marry him and join the band. The husband quoted Billy Bragg yesterday, who apparently said - “There are those who like Mark E Smith, and there are those who met him” :grinning:


“If it’s me and your Granny on bongos, it’s the Fall.”


Lewis, all the indications are that the development is more about quality and helping the consumer know more about where the grapes come from than climate change. The classification has been several years in the making and I think was thought up sometime before climate change started to become an issue for the Burgundians.
As an aside on the climate change issue, I suspect that changes in more drought resistant rootstocks, better canopy management and later ripening clones of PN and Ch. will be more of a sign of Burgundy facing up to climate change. Then perhaps irrigation? Traditionally not allowed in France irrigation may have to be seriously considered depending on rainfall.


On what I have tried in this new category:

Just had this over the last two days. Bourgogne Cote d’Or 2017 from Sylvain Bzikot. Excellent for a plain ‘Bourgogne’ and with length comparable to some other producers’ ‘Village’ wine. If producrs are trying to make a statement with "Bourgogne Cote d’Or ", this is as good an effort as any.

Quiet cherry nose, and again a quiet restrained feel on the palate and ripe, slightly ‘dry’ fruit feel. There is tannin but in the background and the whole is in such good balance that it is one of those where you feel hmmm, must just have another sip to explore what else I can taste there…

Bourgogne from some famous producers in the Cote d’Or have (in my experience) always cost almost twice as much as one would expect an ‘average’ Bourgogne from a volume merchant to cost. There was always a slight mental disconnect for me and a cross-the-fingers, hope-it-is-better and worth the premium. Maybe if no one lets the side down in quality, everyone in the Cote d’Or will get (ie. charge) an uplift in prices (…poor consumers us!) by riding on the coat-tails of the genuinely good generic-Bourgogne producers.

I am now just waiting for someone to report that their Bourgogne Cote d’Or was awful!.. Consistency is what is needed for this new category to succeed.