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AGM discussions

Ok… so ~ Gbp 2.4m was allocated to the Sales discount account (about 15 quid per member average using the active members number of 171k)… so what happens now?

Thanks!

I picked up the above message on another topic and thought it would be an apt time to move discussions like this to a specific place, as I think a lot of these kinds of questions about details in our Annual Review may be asked as questions/interesting discussion points around the time of our AGM. Hopefully many of them will receive some kind of answer/extra info given on the night itself.

In case you’ve missed it, this year’s AGM is on 14th June at 6pm and will be held virtually again this year - see you there! :smiley:

Details here:

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Having done a quick scan of the Rules, it seems to me that the £2.4M is shared out proportionally to the transactions that each member had with the Society during the relevant accounting year.
A back of a fag packet approximation (I may be utterly wrong :open_mouth:) was that around 1.7% of the value of transactions would be credited back to each individuals share.
My caveat here is that I am neither a lawyer nor accountant.
Ergo, the more you spent; the greater the “cashback!”
This post is more to stimulate our collective understanding as to how this money is distributed amongst the membership, and if I am incorrect regarding my comprehension of the Rules; some more learned member might set us straight.
As a wider point, there should be an explainer in plain English within the accounts, so that we all have an accurate take on the distribution. :dragon:

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Definitely.

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I think it’s also worth remembering that EP sales don’t show up for 2-3 years through the accounts.

How on earth is TWS going to be able to work out all the differing amounts to credit to members accounts dependent on the purchases each year? Surely this is a grand recipe for confusion, especially when members (as some will) ask for a running total of the value of their share. For goodness sake TWS can’t even (or won’t) get an EB symbol (English Bottled) in the wine list/website, so how does anyone think everyone’s share value will happen.

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I suspect that there will be no tangible transfer of funds from TWS to us, rather that our share dividend will be credited value like in days of old. This effectively takes cash from the p&l and moves it into shareholder capital which can be used for future enhancements. To my knowledge there have been no actual cash transactions from TWS back to shareholders since establishment.

Anyone in the know confirm or deny this?

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I believe that the dividends that attach to shares in some years are the same amount for every share in a particular year.
One’s total dividend depends on the age of the share (from original issue, it may have been inherited since) and can be seen in a table at the back of the full accounts, page 28.
This year’s dividend appears to have been 10p.

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I thought (correct me please!) that any profits were ‘returned’ to the members, via reductions in sale price of wine IN FUTURE year & buying in of more stock E.P. - so effectively, the more wine that a member buys IN FUTURE the more they benefit from previous profit / surpluses?

Hence the account name: “Sales Discount”

Taken over the typical lifetime of a membership (decades) - that IS the same as paying members a dividend according to the total value of their purchasies

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Which might also explain reduction in the prices of many cheaper wines recently

Reduction in cheaper wine might also be down to TWS buying in extra stock as a buffer against Brexit unknowns… and now its being sold off ? who knows…

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And currency exchange movements where the GBP has made some headway lately.

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Note 18 to the accounts appears to confirm your explanation:-

" The Committee may resolve during an accounting year that a sum, which is a percentage of the total value of each member‘s transactions during that accounting year, shall be transferred at the end of the accounting year from The Society’s net profits (including profits of previous years retained by The Society) in accordance with Rule 73"

Note 17 carries the same text but that is an error as it is related to rule 71. Previous years’ accounts had the correct explanatory note.

The explanation is confirmed in note 1:-

" Each share in issue has amounts attaching to it in respect of sums declared since the issue of each share, as Accumulated Profit (share interest) and Sales Discount (discounts declared on a Member’s purchases)."

and

“Whilst The Society’s share capital, accumulated profit, and sales discount accounts attributable to individual members is payable on demand to the member’s estate on their death and thus contains debt characteristics, the overall incidence of such payments is sufficiently low and the amount of such payments is sufficiently small to regard the account balances as being substantially equity in nature.”

I had understood that the dividends attached to each share were repayable on share redemption (which is only permitted on the death of a member) but it appears that the equivalent of a ‘Co-op divi’ is added in as well.

I think I would rather have lower prices while I am alive.

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@Kidman

Thank you.
Last year, I asked for and received a breakdown of the value of my share.
It was illuminating and I think that I posted the breakdown.
Now back to the cricket!! :wink: :dragon:

My assumption is that I wont receive any monies back but it would be fantastic at some point to get some clarity in layman’s terms going forward.

Perhaps more light will be shed at the AGM.

I’m certain there’s no prospect of a 1980’s style Building Society windfall.:money_mouth_face:

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I have always worked on that assumption as well.

I think the business of adding an amount to amembers shares , which can only be accessed after their death. Is absurd. Over the years the amounts will be eaten up by inflation, So that the amount of money that can be redeemed is very small. Much better to leave your shareholding to someone else.
I am a member of the Phone Coop and the annual divi and interest on my £1. share has mounted up to £77.00 with out me adding any additional monies and can be accessed at anytime tax free.

Hi there,

I just heard from our Finance Team about this - they asked me to pass on the following message:

“That is a good spot re note 17. We will ensure it is revised to the prior language for next year. Many thanks for picking this up!”

Can’t seem to find the voting buttons. Can anyone help?

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