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A couple of exciting new Xinomavros

Always best to know one’s subject I find. Although I’m no xinomavros expert of course!

In terms of the Naoussa Apellation, Camensac and Cantermerle are the vinous equivalent of Thymiopolous Jeunes Vignes.

It would help to compare apples with apples.


@Tannatastic The issue was price!

In your book perhaps!

Its rather a disingenuous comparison putting forward Cantermerle as a prima facie example of a GCC Bordeaux. Just, yes, but not exactly benchmark.


To be fair, and silly me for making assumptions, I presumed you weren’t talking about a 5th Crú… but there you go …

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Look, I’m sorry for being a smart-arse but I really do think some of these wine producers need a reality check when it comes to prices. I’ve been buying wine a long time (too bloody long I think) but in my opinion (mine alone) many of these Eastern European wines and the surrounding regions are far too pricey and are talked up religiously! I feel the same way about English wines too!

Just so I’m clear here, the suggestion is that Eastern European wine gets more praise and a highe profile than Bordeaux???


The thing is, for a lot of us (even those of us old enough to have drunk plenty of Bordeaux and Burgundy at prices that now look like wishful thinking), Bordeaux was pretty much the original far too pricey wine. I’m sure that we can all agree that there are chancers around who seem to just me taking the piss with their prices, and to an extent the rigidity of the Bordeaux classification to some extent means that it’s more difficult for someone to come in and charge ridiculous prices for over-extracted rubbish.

However, a lot of us have taken a lot of pleasure in the proliferation of careful quality focussed production of indigenous varieties in particular. Personally I’m far more likely to be drinking an insipid Bordeaux and regretting the quality of xinamavro (or mencia or aglianico or blaufränkisch or whatever) I could have got for the money than vice versa.


I give up!

With the hole you’re digging that would seem the most approproate strategy :grinning:


I don’t agree with AnaGramWords on many points on here but I do understand where he is coming from here. The point being that the likes of Musar have an almost cult following and the trend nowadays is to be different and so being obscure and lacking in the historical track record almost becomes a USP in and of itself and could lead to increased prices as a result.

All that said I have thought all the Musar and Xinomavro I have drunk has been good value.

On the Bordeaux Vs eastern European price forgetting all other factors of prestige or anything else I would imagine the price of land and labour is so different that a Bordeaux wine costs more to make as a starting point. Anyway, in the interest of fairness I thought I would pop my head above the parapet. I have no strong feelings on the matter and will probably buy both of the wines on offer.



I hear where @AnaGramWords is coming from. There a plenty of style over substance wines that fit this description and price point (including some from Bordeaux). These Xinomavro aren’t them. They’re serious well made wines with old vines and a long wine making history behind them, they’re just new(er) to the UK market.

As a buyer of both, I’d say Cantemerle/Carmensac are somewhere around the Markovitis Xinomavro I had last weekend (which is in its £20ish per bottle for the 2013, there’s also still a few 1999 floating around for £30ish a bottle) and the ones posted here are more Giscours/Brainaire-Decru (£50 a bottle) comparison to GCC in terms of quality, complexity and longevity.


The Eagle (or wild boar and indeterminate birds) has landed :grinning:


Mmmmm jealous eyes🤩


Loving the labels !

I really enjoyed Matthew Horsley’s informative overview of Greece wines earlier in the year, so laying down a case of the wild boar’s for drinking in 2030.

Thanks Matthew, looking forward to seeing what you sniff out next :smiley:


Posh one’s sold out.

20 cases of the other one left…


Damn it - I was trying not to buy anything else!! One case added to reserves.

16 left at time of ordering. I give it to 6.30 tonight to sell out.

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Thanks for the tip. I have added to my reserves. Only 11 cases left.